The HR Famous Podcast: e9 - For HR Leaders, "1" is the Loneliest Number...

In Episode 9 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Jessica Lee and Tim Sackett (Temporarily “Furloughed” from HR Famous, KD) come together and talk about what it’s like to be an HR Leader during the COVID-19 Crisis.

The team talks about how home/work life has changed for them the last month and the importance of finding your support system. We acknowledge the challenges up ahead for HR leaders and look to past experiences during times of crisis. Listen as the team discusses how industries are relying on each other, the birth of “Gen C” and how to implement fluid strategies during constant change.

Listen below and be sure to subscribe, rate and review (iTunes) and follow (Spotify)!!! Listen on iTunesSpotify and Google Play.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:

1:30 - Jessica is Back! Kris is now furloughed and Tim and JLee talk about how young they look! Tim says we hate hiring two types of people: Old people and Fat people!

4:00 – Things the bug you about your WFH partners! JLee dishes on what bugs her most about BobbyJ, and Tim shares an amazing drink recipe. Tim found out his house isn’t big enough for WFH for him, since the rest of his family already took all the good spots!

9:00 – What’s it like to be an HR Leader in the world of COVID? JLee believes being an HR leader today can be lonely and isolating when we are dealing with so much heavy stuff. So, Tim and JLee talk through how do we support each other and find coping mechanisms. Everyone thinks HR knows the plan, which adds so much stress to us and our teams. Tim comes clean that he and KD talk every day!

13:10 – It’s okay to be human during a crisis in HR. It’s super hard to prepare for the crap side of HR. Laying folks off, delivering bad news, etc. We all love the great side of HR, but the last decade has made most of us forget about the bad side of HR. Tim gives stories from the trenches when he was considered the Grim Reaper!

17:25 – All Industries rely on each other in times of crisis. The big question is do we become more global or less global from the fallout of all of this. We rely on other countries for so much, but we now know we might need some America-based supply chains to protect ourselves in major crisis.

19:38 GenC is created! We are now calling kids who grow up during Coronavirus times – GenC’s! Tim talks about how his GenZ sons are graduating college in a bad economy and how that has a real impact for those kids who went through primary school during the Great Recession and now come out to the real work world during a pandemic.

23:15 – Fluidity with how you lead. In times of crisis we still need to plan, but you better be fluid with those plans because the only thing we know right now about leadership is as soon as you think you have it down, things will change!

25:15 – Tim gives a shout out to friend of HR Famous Trish McFarland! Introverts you need to contact your extroverted friends and make sure they’re doing okay, and JLee tells Tim he needs to watch Tiger King on Netflix!


Let's Look at Glassdoor Reviews...For Glassdoor the Company!

I woke up this morning and learned that US weekly jobless claims jumped to 6.64 million in the week that ended Saturday, per the US Labor Department.. That is more than double the prior week's report, which itself reflected filings that more than quadrupled the previous record.

Here's a chart to really help you feel it (email subscribers, click through it you don't see the chart below).  Thanks COVID-19!

Unemployment

With charts like that, you know what's coming for a lot of HR and TA pros out there? Glassdoor reviews! It's the game HR people love to hate, which for me means it's time for the analysis you've been waiting for:

Let's look at the Glassdoor Reviews.. For Glassdoor the Company!

To get you level set, you can travel to Glassdoor's page on... Glassdoor!. Click here to go the reviews, and I'm sharing a screenshot of the review home page below as well.  Scroll down and I'll give you my top 4 observations about Glassdoor's reviews as a company after the jump. (email subscribers, click through for images below)

Screenshot 2020-04-02 11.15.06

 

Now you're interested, right? Glassdoor rates as a 4.0, which is good but probably not what you expected from Glassdoor. Here's my analysis of what that overall rating means along with some other observations after digging in a bit:

1--Glassdoor actually drinks the kool-aid/eats the dog food and allows current and former employees to leave negative reviews. Many of you are/were skeptical, and that's OK. But dig in, and you'll see the negative reviews in the profile, just like your company - all with an ax to grind.

2.--The Glassdoor cumulative rating of 4.0 is actually at least a 3.5 for every other company, maybe less. Why? Simple, Glassdoor has to be better than anyone else on earth in asking their employees to consider leaving a review. Think about it, it's part of what they sell in their packages - we'll teach you to make/manage review requests from people who have experienced positive events - a promotion, a big salary bump, etc. For that reason, they have to have more of the "by request" positive reviews than any other company on the planet. That means the 4.0 could be adjusted to a 3.5 via the KD.com-glassdoorindex, maybe more. I'll let you decide whether you would drop them further with this component in mind.

3--Glassdoor has the same problems you have. While it's hard to find, dig into the reviews and you'll find the same pain other people have - Customer service reps, sales people, etc - leaving hard reviews mixed in with the super positive/super pumped reviews. As with all companies, the best reviews aren't the 1-star or the 5-star (even though it's fun to rubberneck at the 1 and 2 star reviews) - the most helpful reviews are the balanced feedback reviews in the 3-star range, and the 4-star reviews that give meaningful "cons" about working at Glassdoor. Here's the slice of Customer Success Manager Reviews, which comes in a "winter is coming" 2.7 overall rating.

Screenshot 2020-04-02 11.11.34

4--Where are the ugly people? I kid. Maybe. As you would expect, Glassdoor has done a nice job of taking the employer profile and making sure the art is maximized through photos. But most of the photos are a bit staged for my taste, which is a choice. It would be cool to see one shot of someone talking on a video call to one of you (The HR/TA leader), with you doing what you do - being irate and trying to get Glassdoor to remove a review that names your SVP of Sales by name and actually logs his time in/time out of the office over the course of a week. 

TL;DR summary of my review of Glassdoor the company via Glassdoor reviews - they're more like your company than you might think. Adjust for the fact they're better than anyone related to generating positive reviews in their company, and they look like the rest of America for the most part.

Now about those unemployment numbers...


The HR Famous Podcast: E8 - Video Work Meetings: Winning On ZOOM

In Episode 8 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim Sackett and Kris Dunn (Jessica Lee on break) get together with Dawn Burke (Senior Writer at Fistful of Talent, Sr. Consultant at Recruiting Toolbox) to talk about video meeting etiquette, their virtual meeting pet peeves and their wildest video call stories.

The team shares their tips and tricks on tech, framing and lighting for your video calls. Talking about their pet peeves leads to the importance of connection, Zoom’s questionable feature on attention metrics, and how to be aware of nonverbal cues. KD closes by prompting the team to share some embarrassing video call moments that you won’t want to miss.

Listen below and be sure to subscribe, rate and review (iTunes) and follow (Spotify)!!! Listen on iTunesSpotify and Google Play.

Show Highlights: 

1:30 - Tim says Michigan isn’t shut down completely – YET and the team welcomes special guest, senior writer at FoT, Dawn Burke. Dawn explains she doesn’t eat cat food, and life’s good followed by Tim and KD talking COVID-19 toilet paper memes.

5:00- KD dives deep into best practices for video meetings. Kris gives a shout out to Craig Fisher and talk about how not to suck at video – thinking about your camera, mic and lighting… Tim talks tech with wifi vs. hardwire – and calls out KD on his bad internet, and KD blames his kids who are now home and “streaming”.

8:30- Dawn talks the importance of having the basics first, lighting second… but if you are looking for the right light, there are amazon purchases that makes video calls cleaner, neater and brighter. She highly recommends the selfie ring light.

10:45 -The team digs into the pet peeves. KD’s first: framing and shitty backgrounds. Tim and Dawn agree first on their list is learn how to MUTE.  

17:20 – KD asks “What is your dream video meeting background?” Dawn would be in a coffee shop with Jesus in the background. Tim goes 80’s arcade and KD wants a Wu-Tang jpeg. But what you really want, is something that starts conversation.

22:25- KD talks about how your company culture follows you into virtual meetings. “There’s attention metrics on tools like Zoom and the host of the meeting can get a notification if you aren’t paying close attention for 30 seconds” A hack for those with questionable manager techniques… keep Zoom as your active window and get your other windows set before the call is the recommendation.

27:45- The team discusses if it’s important to be looking into the camera. Tim mentions it’s one of his pet peeves – “eye contact is one of our physical ques that indicate if someone’s engaged”

33:30- KD says the best guidance for video meetings, is to show non-verbal ques and interaction because that will help you thrive over those who aren’t picking up those ques.Tim and Dawn go into more advice. Tim says headphones keep you locked in and Dawn says everyone working from home will make our work places better in the future.

37:45 Tim, KD and Dawn start sharing their video call horror stories. From spouses crawling across the floor in the background, embarrassing notifications on shared screens to Dawn’s cat cameos.

Show Resources:

Jessica Lee on LinkedIn

Tim Sackett on Linkedin

Kris Dunn on LinkedIn

HRU Tech

The Tim Sackett Project

The HR Capitalist

Fistful of Talent

Kinetix

Boss Leadership Training Series


THE HR FAMOUS PODCAST: E5 – CORONAVIRUS, FACE-TOUCHING AND HR

In Episode 5 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Jessica Lee, Tim Sackett and Kris Dunn get together to talk about all things Coronavirus (COVID-19) and HR, including their personal views, why companies don't plan more for bad things happening and of course, the HR mechanics that have to be figured out by HR leaders in the US if COVID-19 continues to escalate. 

Deep conversations around what a sniffle now means, bias around sniffles, managers with a bias to tell people to come to work, and the sticky mess that navigating pay for hourly workers with the condition or waiting to be tested will invariably cause for organizations with narrow profitability. 

Listen below and be sure to subscribe, rate and review (iTunes) and follow (Spotify)!!! Listen on iTunesSpotify and Google Play.

 

Show Highlights:

1:45 - Tim isn't a fan of the COVID-19 death tally. The gang discusses the requirement for government agencies to be transparent and inform vs the insane media cycle we're in related to the numbers, as well as all the things with huge negative numbers that don't get reported.

3:20 - Are we hopelessly behind in America related to planning for contagion? What's HR's role in preparing for the worst? The gang discusses not being the panicked HR leader vs the appropriate mode of prep and concern for your organization. 

6:21 - Tim brings up the point that it's not the team eligible for "work for home" you must figure out - it's the hourly employees who don't get paid if Funny-meme-about-people-touching-their-face-coronavirus-cdc-covid-19they don't come to work.

7:45 - KD talks about the challenges of someone getting sick - still the cold and flu season - how do you figure out when to let people work with sniffles and when it's a risk?  KD also breaks down what conferences are doing (if they are holding live conferences vs cancelling or going virtual). TRANSLATION: BE PREPARED TO BE TEMPERATURE SCANNED.

9:35 - The HRF team talks about how far we're willing to go as HR pros - are we ready to temperature scan employees before they're allowed to work? JLee talks about the fear that people have when someone coughs, as well as questions she gets asked - "have you been to Asia recently?" (aka, the cough of a PacRim person means more than someone else).

12:45 - KD talks about some hopeful news - that new cases in China have decreased (related to the trend line) for the first time and China is shutting down one of the first pop up hospitals it built in response to the decrease in the trend line.

15:20 - JLee, Tim and KD talk about the complexity of paid time off in the Coronavirus era. If someone comes down with COVID-19, will average companies provide 14 days of paid leave to impacted employees? Are they willing to put people on a form of paid leave when they are waiting for a test?  We're back to the issue of hourly employees who don't get paid if they're not at work being patient zero within a single company - they come to work when they're sick, a time-honored event we don't see changing with COVID-19 unless great HR pros help their companies figure it out.

Resources:

Jessica Lee on LinkedIn

Tim Sackett on Linkedin

Kris Dunn on LinkedIn

HRU Tech

The Tim Sackett Project

The HR Capitalist

Fistful of Talent

Kinetix

Boss Leadership Training Series

 

Telling a Leader They're Wrong: A Survival Guide...

One of the trickiest parts of growing your career is the following:

The leaders you work for aren't always going to be right. Council

You're going to see that they are wrong from time to time.

You're got a choice - tell them or not?

If you tell them and don't nail the landing, you will hurt your career.

If you tell them and make them trust you, your career has no limit.

If you don't tell them, you're average like everyone else.

What do you do when a leader you work for is wrong, or at the very least, you've got a different opinion/perspective?

Your should tell a leader they are wrong as needed. But the key is finding a way to tell them they're wrong in a way that makes them trust you more.

There's a couple of great ways to do this:

1--There's a problem, but it's not you - it's them. This is the strategy that tells the leader he/she is wrong, but not because they made a miscalculation, but because someone else is screwing up. You have additional information they need to consider, and you want them to have the information because you're concerned the results might not be what they envisioned.

It's not the leader, it's them. You know, the stupid people.

2--You've got additional information, and you're sharing it because you've always got your leader's back. There's some stupid people doing stupid things. You're leader's plan won't work as well with these people screwing it up.  

I've always got your back. I'm reporting that there are things in play that you might not control.

Again, it's them. Not you.

Your decision was f###ing brilliant. But the damn people with agendas are getting in the way. I'm here to make sure you have all the information and don't get hurt.

Of course, your leader may send you to fix the people/problem. But you didn't want to be average, which is why you're telling your leader he/she is wrong.

So go fix the problem. Congrats on not being average - or scared - like everyone else.


THE HR FAMOUS PODCAST: E4 – Microaggressions

In Episode 4 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Jessica Lee, Tim Sackett and Kris Dunn get together to dip into uncomfortable territory by talking about microaggressions - what are they, how they manifest themselves and what HR leaders can do to make awareness of microaggressions part of their broader D&I stack.

Listen below and be sure to subscribe, rate and review (iTunes) and follow (Spotify)!!! Listen on iTunesSpotify and Google Play.

Microaggressions can be defined as brief and commonplace daily verbal or environmental indignities, whether intentional or unintentional, that communicate hostile, derogatory, or negative prejudicial slights and insults toward any group, particularly culturally marginalized groups.

There's less laughter in this one - but more real talk. Tough topic, but if you're an HR leader or HR pro, 100% worth your time to raise your awareness and lead your organization accordingly.

Show Highlights:

3:10 - KD intros the topic of microaggression, tells the gang why it's on his mind and gets sidetracked automatically because JLee and Tim don't donate at least annually to Wikipedia. 

6:20 - KD finally gets the definition of microaggression out using Wikipedia as his primary source. Turns out the concept has been around since 1970.

7:40 - JLee and Tim react to the concept of microaggression as individuals and HR pros. JLee talks about being from Cali, but people persisting in asking where she's from. Tim talks about the fact that people seek connection by asking others where they are from in metro/urban environments and may be unaware of the connection to microaggression, as well as the fact they might be offending someone.

11:25 - KD leads the gang through the game, "Is it a microaggression? JLee gives great thoughts about low awareness of those providing the microaggression and why the subject of a microaggression should think about giving feedback to the provider. 

Covered in this game:

--Where are you really from?

--Asking where are you from to white people with accents.

--Gender references (Sir, Ma'am) and being wrong.

--You don't speak Spanish?

--No, you're white!

--Hey Guys!

22:00 - The gang talks about the impact of microaggressions in the workplace, and how HR leaders should start the conversation in their companies, etc.  Linkage to bias training and starting to raise awareness as well as training to lay down a form of behavioral muscle memory across employees is discussed. Framing awareness training as civility rather than the foreboding term microaggression is also discussed.

25:20 - Tim talks about the need to train and coach people to accept feedback (someone telling them they're using a microaggression) in a graceful way rather than feeling attacked or defensive. 

28:00 - KD talks about introducing the topic of microaggressions at your next training session/meeting by conducting a simple quiz like the one performed on the podcast to get people talking.  Get ready! Tim talks about the fact that many people would say that doesn't actually happen, and a better path might be to have people who have experienced microaggressions talk about their experiences.

29:40 - KD points out that the quiz they did didn't include the nuclear bomb of all microaggressions - "You're so articulate". 

30:45 - "OK, Boomer!" Tim drops the fact that when it comes to bias, ageism is an under discussed topic, including microaggressions towards older workers. KD talks about JLee referencing the fact that he looks older while she looks the same. 

31:57 - KD talks about the fact that he routinely calls JLee a Tiger Mom and asks her if she's considered that a microaggression in the past.  JLee provides positive feedback, but notes that others that hear it might consider it a microaggression even if she doesn't.

Resources:

Jessica Lee on LinkedIn

Tim Sackett on Linkedin

Kris Dunn on LinkedIn

HRU Tech

The Tim Sackett Project

The HR Capitalist

Fistful of Talent

Kinetix

Boss Leadership Training Series


The World Needs More Businesses that Call Bull**** on Ageism...

In today's cancel culture, it has never been easier to be accused of discrimination, and never been more important to watch what you say. 

But there's one big group that no one really cares if you make fun of, treat poorly or generally ignore and at times, show bias towards.

OLD PEOPLE.

Look around. People over 50 get laid off all the time, get made fun of and generally live in fear of not being able to provide for themselves or their families. To be clear, I don't give a s*** about "OK, Boomer!" - if you can't take that without ID'ing it as discrimination, then you're probably not tough enough to be someone I want to work with, regardless of age.

That's why this ad, from the creative agency FEARLESS, was so awesome. Take a look at the ad and we'll talk about it after the jump (email subscribers, enable images or click through, you'll want to see this one):

Fearless

Ian David from FEARLESS first shared this ad. Here's more of what he shared in his LinkedIn post:

"Our writers, art directors, strategists, producers, directors, editors, designers, and account managers are chosen on talent, not age. They're in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s, and every single one of them is a total badass at what they do. 

Teams that draw on the full gamut of experience are the kind more and more clients are demanding to see looking back at them in presentations and pitches.

This shouldn't be surprising. With the average age of the consumer steadily rising, and the over-50s outspending the under-30s by a country mile, the ability to harness the broadest possible range of creative perspective is a distinct advantage; shallow and narrow are no match for deep and wide.

Adults over 50 buy 60% of all new cars, yet only 5% of advertising dollars are targeted at anyone over 35. Think about that the next time you see a car ad with a young 30-something behind the wheel. The folks buying BMWs and Mercedes are doing so despite the advertising not because of it. Imagine what the sales numbers would be like if we directed our messages to the right audience. It's the same story across a whole raft of industries, and as a consequence, huge opportunities are being lost.

If traditional agencies don't want to take the aging consumer seriously, then we will. We have the people, the know-how, and the chops to speak to them intelligently. There's also a burning desire to end ageism raging in our DNA."

Bravo, Ian David. Keep doing you on this topic. It's awesome.

Closing note. If you're over 40 or 50, it's easy to applaud, right?

Not so fast my friend. You've got a role in this too. While you might not look like dude in the ad (females, think about what the equivalent would be), you've got to do your part as an older worker to stay relevant.

Be curious. 

Stop thinking the kids you work with should get the F*** off your lawn.

Improve your knowledge and skills accordingly.

Upgrade the way your dress to fit the times.

Do what it takes to have the energy required to show you're engaged and ready to get shit done.

Perform.

Don't sit in the back and hope that a layoff doesn't happen to you.

If you're in a management role, you've got two goals this year. Coach older talent to be the things I've listed above to ensure they stay relevant, and think about the value that the right older workers provide given the market opportunity listed by Ian.

Don't discount great older talent.

Older talent - be better.


Coaching Your Ambitious Direct Report to Not Be Hated...

Ambition is the path to success. Persistence is the vehicle you arrive in.
--Bill Bradley

If you're like me, you love a direct report with ambition.  People with Ambition get shit done. Do they get shit done because they believe in you as a leader or they believe in themselves?

If you're asking that question, you're concerned with the wrong things.  Just celebrate the execution that comes with ambition and stop thinking so much. (the answer, btw, is that they believe in themselves and are motivated by moving their careers forward)

One problem that is universal related to direct reports with high ambition levels is that they can become hated by their peers - the folks they work with.  It's pretty simple to see why.  The folks with ambition treat life like a scoreboard and more often than not are low team (on a behavioral assessment).  Their peers want to do good work for the most part but don't have designs to rule the world.  Friction ensues. The team views the high ambition direct report like an opportunistic freak. A brown-noser. Someone that would run over his own mother for the next promotion.

So how do you coach your high ambition direct report to play nice with the lower ambition locals?

The key in my experience is to confront the reality with the high ambition direct report - you're looking to do great things.  You're driven.  You want to go places and you're willing to compete with anyone you need to in order to get there.  Start with that level set.

Then tell them they have to get purposeful with recognition of their peers.

If a high ambition direct report starts a weekly, informal pattern of recognition of their peers, a funny thing happens.  They start to look human to those around them.

But in order to make it work, you have to confront them and convince them that work life is not a zero sum game - just because you give kudos doesn't mean a high ambition FTE won't get the promotion or the sweet project assignment.  It actually makes them stronger, because in addition to all the great individual work they do, they start to be perceived as a good to great teammate, which unlocks some doors to management/leadership roles in a way that great individual work can't.

But that doesn't happen for the high ambition direct report unless you are honest with them about this:

1.  You're high ambition and would run over grandpa to win/survive/advance.

2. You're peers think you're a dick, and that's going to limit you.

3.  You're going to fix it by recognizing those around you on a weekly basis for great work, and you're going to reinforce that recognition by sharing your thoughts informally beyond the email you send, the shout out you make in a meeting, etc.

Don't be a dick, high ambition direct report.  Share the love and you'll actually get to where you want to go sooner.

Signed - KD


THE HR FAMOUS PODCAST: e3 - Companies Get Frisky With Glassdoor, Changes to SHRM Influencer Program

In episode 3 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Jessica Lee, Tim Sackett and Kris Dunn discuss recent legal proceedings designed to force Glassdoor to disclose reviewer identities, take a look at the company involved by reviewing their Glassdoor page and activity, and talk about dramatic changes to the SHRM Annual Conference Influencer Program.

Listen below and be sure to subscribe, rate and review (iTunes) and follow (Spotify)!!! Listen on iTunesSpotify and Google Play.

Show Highlights:

2:45 – Tim walks though recent changes to the Influencer Program at the SHRM Annual Conference.

12:06 – Tim and JLee discuss the challenges of Glassdoor as employers and discuss Tim’s CEO rating on Glassdoor.

13:42 – KD lays out a recent court proceeding where a company (Kraken) is asking for the identities of Glassdoor commenters due to violation of confidentiality clauses in signed severance agreements.

16:15 – JLee labels Kraken as a JV squad. Tim reviews the timing of the layoffs, the targeting of former Glassdoor employees with a cease and desist letter about Glassdoor comments, smart Glassdoor management and more.

21:18 – The gang breaks down the Kraken Glassdoor page and activity. JLee comes in with breaking news of a warning at the top of the Kraken page. Heavy discussion of the relationship between paid customers and Glassdoor ensues.

22:55 – More Kraken analysis as the gang looks deeper into their glassdoor page and starts sorting by low and high ratings and see what’s most popular and reads titles of negative reviews and analyzes traffic to positive vs negative posts. Spoiler – people read the negative reviews more.

26:34 – The gang discusses the right way to respond to Glassdoor reviews to be credible and authentic. Code words in employer responses are also discussed.


THE HR FAMOUS PODCAST: E2 – MCLOVIN: WORKPLACE DATING AND HOOKUPS

NOTE FROM KD: Back with episode 2 of “The HR Famous Podcast”. Take a listen and we’ll be back on a weekly basis. See player below (email subscribers click through if you don’t see it), and HR Famous - e2please hit iTunesSpotify and Google Play to subscribe so you get notified whenever there’s a new show on your phone. Click here for Episode 1, where we talk about the title of the show and share a bunch of stories about being less than famous.

In Episode 2 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Jessica Lee, Tim Sackett and Kris Dunn get together to discuss Workplace McLovin – relationships, dating and hookups that occur inside your company between employees. The HR Famous team tells stories and talks about the role of HR and whether there is a need for deep policies to protect your company when people fall in love, as well as when Outlook Exchange and a digital copier are involved. Email subscribers click through if you don’t see the player below or click here for a direct link or hit iTunesSpotify and Google Play.

Show Highlights:

3:00 – The gang discuses KD’s choice of hotels, whether you can say “white” these days and if white is a primary color.

4:00 – JLee lays down the science behind how long you can say “Happy New Year” and Tim and KD turn it into an manager access issue and a discussion of the Chinese New Year.

5:50 – KD kicks off the topic of C-level McLovin and dating in the workplace with a review of the McDonalds CEO and the Alphabet/Google Legal Counsel going down for relationships at work.

8:40 – Tim and JLee discuss whether companies and the HR leaders need to be the relationship police, including risk management, positional power and more.

13:20 – The gang gathers around the campfire and listens to the gripping story of young KD’s first exposure to C-Level McLovin(s) and KD advocates for relationship policies being like a DUI Checkpoint. Tim and JLee weigh in with policy impact, including level considerations, reporting relationships, asking for waivers and potentially asking people to leave the company or change jobs as a result of falling in love.

31:00 – Tim tells his story from Applebees, which is epic and should not be missed, including perceived benefits that don’t have a Summary Plan Description or an Explanation of Benefits.

34:00 – KD breaks down another McLovin C-Level story that felt like the Matrix, and tells the gang why all McLovin sightings seem to happen around elevators.

Subscribe today at iTunesSpotify and Google Play.