Get Me Some Coffee...Or You're Fired...
July 09, 2008
People still ask underlings to get them coffee (really?). From the Philadelphia Inquirer:
"Nine minutes after receptionist Tamara Klopfenstein complained - for the second time -
about getting her bosses coffee, she was fired. "I don't expect to serve and wait on you by making and serving you coffee every day," Klopfenstein e-mailed to her boss at National Sales & Supply L.L.C., of Bensalem.
Manager Jason Shrager told her the issue wasn't "open for debate."
Instead, the issue caused a brouhaha in federal court. Earlier this month, U.S. District Judge Berle M. Schiller couldn't resist punning his way through a decision on the deeper issue - whether Klopfenstein's managers had created a hostile and discriminatory work environment by requiring the receptionist to fetch them coffee. He wrote that she had no grounds for her complaints of sexual discrimination.
"The act of getting coffee is not, by itself, a gender-specific act," Schiller wrote. The fact that a vice president wrote "looks nice, dresses well," on notes when she was hired also doesn't add up to discrimination, the judge wrote."
Ever been asked to get some coffee for someone? I have. It happened to me during a quick team meeting at a boss's office earlier in my career. I don't think the fact that he asked me to get coffee was an intentional slight. I was the last one to the meeting and he was buried in a spreadsheet and when I asked him if he wanted me to close the door, he asked me if I could grab him some coffee.
With a name like "Kris", I should tell you now that I'm a man, baby (cue the Austin Powers). I was a little taken aback, but like Ask A Manager explains, a task is a task and it's important not to appear like you have zero flexibility. Still, the fact that I was asked was a little embarassing.
It took me about 2 minutes to get the plan together to ensure I was never asked again. Instead of coming back with coffee, I came back to the office no fewer than 3 times to ask the creamer/sugar/real or paper cup questions. Once I was back with the java, I asked him 2-3 times with a joyous spirit how the coffee was. I saw the look in his eye and he figured out that I was poking him for asking me to get his swill. He never asked again and we continued to have a great working relationship.
Plan B, if I got asked a second time, was to trip as I was presenting the second cup and scald him with the hot brew.
Glad it didn't come to that...
Once I was asked to make coffee for my boss because I came in at 3 am and he came in at 4 am. My second day he asked, "hey, why don't you fire up that coffee pot when you get in so it'll be ready when "we" come in."
I explained that I didn't like coffee and wasn't a coffee drinker and then reminded him of the hidden camera footage of the guy caught peeing in the coffee pot at work to get back at his ungrateful fellow employees.
Then I asked him again, are you SURE you want someone that doesn't drink the coffee to make the coffee.
I was never asked anything about coffee in that office again.
Posted by: Scott | July 09, 2008 at 07:06 AM
Kris:
Unequal treatment based on gender is the hallmark of sex discrimination. Repeatedly singling out a female for a "denigrating task" in manner that holds her up to ridicule would likely qualify. From the legal perspective, HR Pros are called upon to evaluate workplace conduct in light of claims of illegal treatment, which differs from unfair treatment. When evaluating claims that work responsibilities are discriminatory, I suggest you ask three things: 1) Was the treatment unequal based on gender or other protected classification? 2) Was the task stereotypically or otherwise denigrating? 3) Was the context of the request degrading?
As to getting coffee, I think it is only fair to disclose that our firm represented the employer in this case.
Posted by: Michael Moore | July 09, 2008 at 09:14 AM
while it's kind of a dumb responsibility to put on the receptionist - fetching coffee - i have to still say it's a total BS claim that this could have created a hostile work environment. i hate, hate, hate when people throw those three lovely words around - hostile work environment - to describe situations they simply don't like and are making them feel hostile. i'm sure michael moore can jump in here on this one. i've seen my fair share of hostile work environment claims through my EEO investigations experience but also just in day to day ER stuff.
anyways, hopefully going forward, when advertising the receptionist gig, National Sales & Supply will include that this role requires making coffee for the office. i do however hope they drop the "fetching" part. get your arse up and get your own coffee!
Posted by: Jessica Lee | July 09, 2008 at 11:07 AM
I read about this! I have heard of many execs that ask their assistants to get them coffee (lunch, dry cleaning, etc). I was even sitting down with a GM who specifically told me, "I need someone who will be okay doing these things when I need them to." For the record...this GM was female. A company pays an executive to produce. If they can produce more by hiring someone else to do little things, so be it.
Sex discrimination, I don't think so (and apparently, neither does the judge). Hostile work environment? I'm with Jessica, here. Now...if he had asked for a back rub (something else I have heard of), that's a different story.
Posted by: Pankow | July 09, 2008 at 12:53 PM
I read about this! I have heard of many execs that ask their assistants to get them coffee (lunch, dry cleaning, etc). I was even sitting down with a GM who specifically told me, "I need someone who will be okay doing these things when I need them to." For the record...this GM was female. A company pays an executive to produce. If they can produce more by hiring someone else to do little things, so be it.
Sex discrimination, I don't think so (and apparently, neither does the judge). Hostile work environment? I'm with Jessica, here. Now...if he had asked for a back rub (something else I have heard of), that's a different story.
Posted by: Pankow | July 09, 2008 at 12:53 PM
interesting. I've never been asked to get anyone coffee but I have offered on several occasions. To be honest, I doubt I would even notice if someone asked me for coffee (or water or to grab them a sandwich). Wonder if there is a *gender issue* here on my side.
Now one thing I am careful about is being asked to be the "notetaker". In my career it has often been the case that I am the only female in the room and if so, I find people quickly assume I'll be the one to take notes. I employ similar tricks to make sure that if I do offer to take notes I'm not the only one who ever does this task.
Posted by: Meg Bear | July 09, 2008 at 04:03 PM
I once had a boss who would ask various office employees for either coffee or popcorn when her assistant was out of the office or otherwise unavailable. She only asked me once - on the coffee I left and came back to ask how many scoops of coffee, then I left again and came back to ask how many cups of water, then I brought the coffee with no cream or sugar and then brought the entire container of creamer and sugar and left it with her.
For the popcorn I burnt the first bag completely and the second one slightly so that it wasn't obvious but it did affect the taste (the microwave was in her office so she had to live with the smell.
Of course, now I am older and wiser and much less passive-aggresive, but back then I got a lot of satisfaction out of it.
Posted by: Michelle | July 09, 2008 at 05:26 PM
I've never been asked to bring coffee or anything else for a manager. I think I'd feel embarrassed, too.
Posted by: Angela Williams Duea | July 10, 2008 at 01:26 PM
As a college student, I've had 5 different internships over the past few years. Surprisingly enough, I've never once fetched coffee for someone else, despite the stereotype of "coffee running" being a primary duty of interns. I actually was having a discussion with some fellow interns recently over whether this is still the norm or if it was never even the reality to begin with?
As an avid coffee drinker, I simply wouldn't want anyone other than myself preparing my coffee. It is worth the time and effort to get a cup that comes out "exactly right". Maybe thats just me...
Posted by: Rob Pitingolo | July 10, 2008 at 10:27 PM
I am an administrative assistant, not a personal assistant. While I don't mind doing the occasional personal favor for a boss or as part of my job, I would not want to be EXPECTED to "fetch coffee" or any other personal items on a regular basis. That is just not right.
We have an exective woman who treats her secretary like this - (get me coffee... bring me my lunch... pick up my perscriptions or dry cleaning). I can't believe her secretary does it. It not only is demeaning to her secretary - but, IMHO, it makes the boss-lady look like a complete jerk too.
I would never work form someone who treated me like that.
Posted by: smj | September 02, 2008 at 04:47 PM