Will Forcing Interviews for Women and Minority Candidates Improve Results? (HR Famous Podcast)

In a word, yes.

I've written about the NFL's Rooney Rule here. Go dig into that for a primer. 

The whole point to the Rooney Rule is opening up the perspective of a walled-off hiring manager/executive.  That's why WMware announced a new commitment to include a minority and female candidate in every search at the company.

We're talking about this at length this week on The HR Famous Podcast. Take a listen below!

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In episode 21 of the HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim Sackett, Kris Dunn, and Jessica Lee come together to talk about The Rooney Rule and VMware’s new commitment to include a minority and female candidate in every search at the company. The gang also discusses how often they’ve filled up their car tanks during quarantine, and something called Generation Zoom.

Listen below (click this link if you don’t see the player below) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (iTunes) and follow (Spotify)!

Show Highlights:

1:30 – How many times have you filled your gas tank during quarantine? Jlee has only filled her tank once since March!

3:00 – Who doesn’t love a best friend duo that runs together? KD and Tim went running in Celebration, Florida together. KD was on Zillow on his phone the entire time they ran in the community and Tim was dying.

5:45 – KD has been reading a lot about “Generation Zoom”; our younger generation that has been learning through distance learning. Jlee talks about how her young kids may have trouble learning in the future since they are losing a lot of development time in school.

9:00 – Do you think there will be a dip in SAT and ACT scores in the coming year? Tim is interested to see where the data falls.

10:45 – First major topic of the day: The Rooney Rule. This NFL rule places interview quotas for minority candidates for coaching positions. Tim talks about how more minority candidates have been put into the interview process and what it’s meant in hiring minority coaches.

16:00 – Jlee discusses her own personal experience getting an opportunity that she might not have based on her resume and how she relates to the experience of Mike Tomlin.

18:00 – Tim talks about some negative views on the Rooney Rule and how often coaching positions are planned and picked out far in advance.

20:00 – KD and Jlee bring up another positive of the Rooney Rule, in that it forces forcing hiring managers to look harder and potentially finding special people that they may not have been able to find before, even if it’s not for that particular position.

22:30 – Second topic of the day: VMware’s CEO (Patrick Gelsinger) announced their company would commit to interviewing a POC and a woman for every single position. KD thinks this sounds similar to the Rooney Rule. KD and Tim praises VMware and other companies who have come out recently with new processes and practices to help diversify their workforce.

26:20 – Jlee brings up potential backlash from recruiters and other hiring managers. She notes that leaders need to give recruiters some leeway in order to reach performance metrics and new interviewing goals.

29:40 – How will this new hiring practice work in practice? KD brings up the self ID process and when it comes into play in the hiring process. Jlee discusses the data recruiters will be giving to hiring managers and how they will report that they are meeting a certain requirement.

33:00 – KD reads VMware’s CEO statement again to Tim and gets his reaction. Tim thinks there are many aspects to this new rule that need to be addressed in order to be successful in finding the best possible candidates.

36:00 – Pat (CEO of VM Ware) is a new best friend of the pod!

36:20 – Jlee and KD praise the leadership at VMware for going ahead with this announcement and implementation of the rule instead of getting bogged down in details and complaints.

38:45 – Jlee and KD talk about the concept of equality vs diversity, with KD bringing up Salesforce’s move years ago to grab the high ground of equality.

41:00 – HR Famous would like to congratulate Patrick Gelsinger from VMware on a job well done with their new version of the Rooney Rule.

 


COVID Observations: The HR Folks Who Kept Going Into the Office...

I almost titled this one, "COVID Winners", but that seemed insensitive at best.

But there were a few winners during the lockout period, which continues for some and is ending for others. Nyc

Here's one of the few winners - the HR pros (and some other executives) who kept going into the office when everyone was gone.  Here's how it works (and note, I'm not talking about the brave folks who had to be in the office - I'm talking about everyone else):

1--COVID came upon us and we scrambled to send everyone home.

2--A few enterprising HR leaders/pros and other execs lingered to make sure everything was set, and in doing so, saw a dystopian scene similar to the one Will Smith saw when he walked around daytime NYC in "I am Legend".

3--Some of these folks went home for a few days, tried to work with families and spouses running around doing kid/spouse things and said, "Nope".

4--Using a form of access during COVID only known to HR people and Executives, they remembered the dystopian scene of no one in the office and rightfully determined there was no threat if they went back.

5--These individuals - crafty souls- didn't have to deal with the COVID lockdown. They spun their need to be the captain of the ship - with the ship defined as the office space - and simply went back into the office.  They've been there since March.

I see you, oh captain my captain. Thanks for keeping America safe as you monitored the office space for danger miles away from the chaos of your home-based COVID lockdown.

Well played, HR leaders living the "I Am Legend" life during the COVID Lockdown.


BOSS Tip: Send an Agenda/Info For Your Meeting, Control the Narrative...

Capitalist Note: Quick hit today from the BOSS Leadership Series, the 7-module series of manager training designed to make your managers better leaders of people!

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I see you and I sense it. You've got an escalating situation - either inside your own team that you manage, via cross-departmental relationships or interacting Agendaswith clients. Things are spiraling and it seems like you can't get ahead.

I'm not embedded with you, so the reasons for the spiral can be many, right? But let's assume for the sake of this post that you're on top of your game, the path you're pursuing is valid and correct, you've got the talent to deliver, etc. You're just getting chopped up repeatedly as you deal with your team, other departments, and/or clients. You just can't seem to get ahead of it.

I'm going to give you one small thing to experiment with to regain control:

Start sending out Agendas for the meetings you're holding. As a senior level course, send some reports with favorable data/info with the agenda for best results.

Meetings suck. They suck more when you're the host and you lose control of them.

Agendas let everyone know what you're going to go through in the meeting. They allow you to be in control, and they allow you to bring wayward conversations back to what you - the organizer - wanted to accomplish.

Data/Info sent with agendas that's favorable to your cause/goals help you establish credibility. To the extent you have enemies in the mix or people who don't agree with your approach, data and info sent with agendas can help you frame the narrative.

It's easy to hijack a meeting away from someone who's not prepared. It's harder when they sent the agenda.

It's even harder when they share an agenda with some reports and info that suggests their path is valid.

Control the narrative and prevent meeting hijacking by sending an agenda. Start with no more than 5 items, each described in 4 words or less.

The floor is now yours. You're welcome.


COVID Has Been Hard on my Friend: Jim, The Shoe Addict...

I'm back with updates on work clothes. As a primer, I'm the same guy who was unafraid to bring you uncomfortable fashion classics like the following:

BEST PRACTICES IN BLUE BLAZERS FOR THE CONTEMPORARY WHITE PROFESSIONAL CLASS MALE

BEYOND BLUE BLAZERS - THE PANTS CHOICES OF PROFESSIONAL WHITE MEN IN AMERICA

If you don't remember these classics, go take a look. There's nothing more fun than busting on how white guys dress. Shoes

But I'm back with an update that goes beyond gender and race. Let's talk about the dopamine hit we all get when we find a great deal on clothes, especially for work. I think it's safe to say that there have been some deals out there as retailers got roughed up by the pandemic-caused recession.

One friend of mine has a long history as a complete shoe addict. To prove this affliction knows no gender, this friend of mine with the shoe jones is a guy.

I'll call this friend, "Jim". The pandemic recession hit Jim's addiction hard. Cole Haan, his long primary source of shoe style, starting pumping emails touting 75% off from late March on. Jim couldn't resist. He kept ordering and stockpiling shoes and his closet looks like what you would expect from a hoarder, with probably 10 boxes of shoes, never worn, waiting for action.

His wife would walk by him at home and he'd hustle to another browser window - BECAUSE OF THE SHAME. He kept going back to the crack pipe of shoes that is Cole Haan, and they were happy to use Jim to relieve themselves of fixed inventory costs.

Jim's addiction seems innocent enough. But of course, addictions impact everyone around the addict. He kept forwarding me emails with sales. I ordered a couple of pairs of dress sneakers in early April - at the time I thought, "I'm going to be totally set up when this pandemic is over."

Flash forward to late June. As I look at the two unopened boxes of work shoes in my closet, I'm like, "####, when am I actually going to wear those shoes?"

Great sales on work clothes don't mean a thing right now. If you know someone like Jim, get into their browser history and run an intervention if necessary.

I'm still Jim's friend. I'm boxing up 2 pairs of Sketchers I got for nothing at an outlet mall to send to him. A shoe addict can't break the cycle on his own. I'm hoping the boxes of cheap Sketchers will be like Methadone on his road to recovery.

Good luck Jim. 


The HR Famous Podcast: e20 - Adidas CHRO on the Ropes, SCOTUS Decision and Pronouns...

In episode 20 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim Sackett, Kris Dunn, and Jessica Lee come together to discuss this week’s Supreme Court ruling, pronouns, and Zoom fatigue. The trio talk about the new developments that may come out of the SCOTUS ruling, the calling for the resignation of Adidas’ CHRO, and micromanaging WFH employees. 

Listen below (email subscribers, click this link if you don't see the player below) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (iTunes) and follow (Spotify)!

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS

2:40 - Weird voicemail time: Tim talks about a voicemail he got from a young person looking for a job with no information whatsoever. Do you have any crazy voicemail stories?

4:50 - Do you put your phone number on your LinkedIn profile? Tim has his out there and he doesn’t get a lot of spam calls (yet).

5:40 - First major topic of the day: SCOTUS ruled last Monday that the Civil Rights Act protects LGBTQ workers from workplace discrimination. Jlee thinks that this is may open up a new dialogue about transgender workers amongst HR professionals and compliance. KD wonders about self IDs and any new developments with affirmative action. 

10:00 - Tim discusses the importance of collecting gender in order to collect data on discrimination. He also talks about how he first was hesitant about the importance of pronouns and how he’s come around on the importance of proper pronouns in the workplace. 

12:00 - Any Billions watchers out there?

13:00 - KD brings up the issue of a few corporations encouraging or forcing the use of personal pronouns on platforms like LinkedIn profiles. He thinks it may slow the progress of the adoption of this new practice. 

16:00 - Tim thinks that companies can force pronoun use and identification onto employees if they’re a company that fosters a more progressive culture. He thinks it may help with less offensive situations by encouraging leadership to adopt the practice and see the culture change from the top down. 

18:30 - Second topic of the day: Adidas employees are calling for the resignation of the brand’s CHRO Karen Parkin due to previous problematic comments on racial issues within the company. Jlee discusses how companies can’t have any missteps right now and if they do, they have to react quickly. 

23:00 - Tim and Jlee comment on their distaste for digging up old dirt and bringing it back up years later. He commends Howard Stern and his genuine apology for doing blackface. He also brings up the differences in racial issues across the world and from country to country. 

26:20 - KD says that it is hard for him to fathom a business leader that isn’t able to acknowledge issues within a company when confronted. Jlee discusses the need for humility and empathy as HR professionals. 

28:15 - Final topic of the day: micromanaging! We’re not talking about the messaging platform but about leaders who micromanage their teams. Tim calls out Jlee for being a micromanager but she claims her extra micromanaging is due to the uncertainty of the times. 

31:40 - Tim doesn’t believe in Zoom fatigue. Do you?

33:50 - “Do you know what’s worse than Zoom fatigue? Not having a job.” - Tim

34:00 - Jlee stands up for permanent remote employees who weren’t forced to show their face on camera before but are now due to everyone working remotely. 

35:20 - Did you know KD writes on the side?

37:15 - Tim thinks that 25-30 working at home may equate to 40 hours to an office.

Resources:

Jessica Lee on LinkedIn

Tim Sackett on Linkedin

Kris Dunn on LinkedIn

HRU Tech

The Tim Sackett Project

The HR Capitalist

Fistful of Talent

Kinetix

Boss Leadership Training Series


The Real Question In 2020 Is This: What's YOUR Platform?

2020 - It's been a bit of a year. As John Whitaker pointed out at Fistful of Talent, we know at the very least a 3rd large scale event is coming - the 2020 election in the United States.

Translation - the fatigue you feel, while real, isn't going to get better. This world is going to keep coming after you in 2020. The more you read and watch the news (which Randall-woodfin_31259213_ver1.0you should), the more conflicted, confused and angry you're going to get.

Which brings me to the point of this note about 2020:

What's YOUR Platform?

Nope! I'm not talking about Democrat/Republican, left vs right, Washington Post vs The Wall Street Journal or anything that signifies sides.

Instead, I'm suggesting that if you feel fatigue, anger or hopelessness with how any major event or movement has left you feeling in 2020, turn off your phone (at least the data portion that powers your social apps and video), the news and everything else that's trying to get you to take a side (and potentially hate another side) and do the following:

Pull out a sheet of paper. Do 2 columns, one for COVID-19 (how we're doing the lockdown, RTW, etc) and one for George Floyd and everything that followed in the last three weeks.

Got your columns? Excellent. Now give me 5-10 bullet points on each and tell me how YOU feel about the issues. Really explore where you are at with those two issues.

I guarantee you that you're going to feel more at peace once you're done. Because instead of being manipulated by the various outlets that shoot opinion, point of views and at times, manipulation your way, you objectively listed where you were at on the issues.

And let's face it, establishing where YOU are at is the first step towards a better place, with any of the issues confronting us, and a better world. 

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I'll give you one piece of my platform - I like leaders who understand how to navigate the complexity of where we are, and I'll cross party lines (I'm a moderate Republican) to vote for good people doing good work.

Example - Birmingham (AL) mayor Randall Woodfin. Late in the first weekend of protests and riots nationally, Birmingham had its first major protest. Woodfin was present and, of course, allowed a peaceful protest and even permitted the group to go to Linn Park in downtown Birmingham and attempt to take down a huge statue with Confederate ties. When it became apparent that 10+ people would be crushed if the statue came down on the protesters, he got on the bullhorn and asked for 24 hours to get the statue down (knowing that the city was under order from the state not to bring down the statue from past years litigation, etc.).

But wait, I'm not done.

The protesters OK'd Woodfin's request and started marching away. Then the group splintered, with rioters taking advantage and started tearing up downtown. Woodfin got on social media IN THE STREETS and said with perfect clarity, "last night of this - we're not tearing up our city."

But again, there's more. The next day, he got the statue down, and BTW, it was one of the first nationally to come down post-George Floyd, and certainly the first to be removed by a sitting mayor. PS- no more riots in Birmingham under the same mayor.

So a mayor in the party I don't automatically affiliate with had the following platform from my vantage point:

1--Allows Protest and actively supports cause.

2--Leads on public safety.

3--Doesn't allow destruction of property.

4--Proactively took confederate symbols down, at risk of lawsuit from the state level. Because it was time.

5--Took the statue to an undisclosed location so neither extreme could get to it, so the legal process could take its course.

Leadership is hard. Conservatives knocked Woodfin for allowing the initial riots. Liberals knocked him for being harder on organizing protests once riots happened. 

I watched and decided I had a lot of respect for how he handled a fluid situation and led as a result. Consequently, I'm more interested in everything else that is on his priority list in Birmingham, where I live.

It sounds like Randall Woodfin has his own platform.

Commenting and trolling on social media is easy. Leadership is hard.

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I know this is a long post. But simply pulling out a figurative piece of paper and thinking about MY platform was helpful. It helped me cut out of the noise, and think about where I was at. Along the way, I became more open to the ideas of others, and found people like Randall Woodfin providing leadership during a difficult time.

I don't have a lot of answers in 2020. But I know most people in America (including you) are good.

If you're frustrated in 2020, turn off social and the news and take inventory of what your platform is on the big issues. When you do that, you'll find you have more in common with almost everyone around you, and we can build from there. 

Consuming extremes (without self evaluation) prevents conversation.

Good luck in the rest of 2020. I have to go, because apparently there's a huge saharan dust cloud coming to blanket where I live.

Of course, in 2020 we call that "Tuesday".


HR Book Review: The Office (The Untold Story of the Greatest Sitcom of the 2000s: An Oral History)...

On my summer reading list is The Office: The Untold Story of the Greatest Sitcom of the 2000s: An Oral History. I originally grabbed the book because it presented an opportunity to connect with my youngest son, who like a lot of kids, has consumed the entire series 3+ times on Netflix. It quickly became a primer on team-based creative process, where ideas have to come in volume, then be culled down quickly to the point that only the best idea makes it, and everyone on the team is OK with that.

One example of lessons from this book is how the writer room was structured and how they blended ownership of ideas from individual to team. Here's the explanation from Office Aaron Shure, co-executive producer and writer for The Office:

"During my tenure [seasons five, six, seven, and eight] we had around fifteen writers, usually three rooms going, and we had inherited the Greg Daniels style of idea generation, which focused on manifesting and externalizing ideas in a physical way, usually in the form of three-by-five cards that came to festoon the walls of the writers’ room if they were worthy enough by Paul and Jen’s estimation. We also had a process called “blitzing” where the writers would hunker down in their offices for an hour or two and come up with as many ideas as we could on a given topic. For instance, a few blitz topics I have in my notes: “Obstacles to Erin and Andy dating.” “Ways Andy and Kelly can try to subvert Gabe.” “What happens with Hay Place?” We’d come back with as many ideas on those topics as we could, read them aloud, and put the promising ones on the wall.

Out of those ideas a few would be selected to move closer to a storyboard. It was a big bubble-sort played out on the walls. While writers would campaign for and champion various cards, it was hard for there to be specific ownership of any given idea, with plenty of duplication and accidental repitching. Similarly, stories were broken in rooms with five or so writers all working on the beats. We’d come back to the room and pitch those boards. There’s a lot of working in a writers’ room that’s similar to improv, where it’s like “Yes, and . . .” You want to be able to keep your mind incredibly open and think of all the possibilities.

Greg actually called it “blue-skying.” Let’s take an example: “Michael is being broken up with and he’s going to handle it like a fourteen-year-old boy because he’s at the emotional level of one. What does he do to process it? How does he deal with something like that?” Sometimes there’s a tendency to just go for the first good idea, but we would spend a lot of time trying to find the best version of something. We would send people off to think and say, “Let’s keep in the blue-sky zone. Don’t put restrictions on yourself. How would a person deal with that?” And every once in a while, something just brilliant would come”

Translation - traditional brainstorming followed by team activity to further develop ideas not only lead to a strong creative process, but it removes the sting of your idea not being chosen - you have ample opportunity to contribute to other idea streams, and when the whole thing is done it's hard to remember the originator of the idea in question.

Recommended book if you liked/loved the office and need a summer read.

PS: The Office probably couldn't be made in 2020.


Do You Have a Direct Report With Writing Talent? You Should!

Look, I get it - some of you won't be hiring for a while based on COVID and the resulting economic struggles. 

Which makes now the perfect time to look at your team of direct reports and ask the following question:

"Do I have someone to carry the writing load in this department?"

I'm not talking about hiring a writer as a standalone position. I'm talking about the need for you to always have someone on your team of direct reports with writing as a key secondary skill. Why is this important? Because you need someone to take the great reactions/outcomes/action plans from you and your team and create effective communications to the masses.

Simply put, you can be a great leader with a great team - but if you can't effectively win in how you communicate what's going on to the masses, you'll never realize your potential as a leader or a department.

If you're not managing others yet and think you have the ability to write well in a professional setting, it's time for you to figure out a way to make writing one of your key differentiators.

The topic of great writing on teams is why I taped an episode of BEST HIRE EVER (my podcast on recruiting topics) with Lance Haun, a former HR pro turned professional writer and editor. Take a look at the rundown for the podcast below and give a listen (please subscribe and rate if you like it).

--KD

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In Episode 5 of BEST HIRE EVER, Kris Dunn connects with Lance Haun (Starr Conspiracy, ERE, Former HR Pro) to talk about why hiring at least one great writer for your team makes incredible sense as a leader – regardless of your functional area or line of business. Lance and KD chop it up about how to spot, find and engage a candidate with writing skills in your hiring process, and how professionals looking to leverage their writing skills for career gain can get noticed.

Never satisfied with one great topic, KD and Lance also explore the Haun family’s history of sustainable meat and how Lance’s dad sees an explosion of business at his butcher shop when things like COVID hit the American marketplace.

Please subscribe (Apple) and follow (Spotify) to get the latest delivered to you.  Email subscribers click here if you don't see the player below:

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:

1:35 - KD starts by calling Lance Haun a killer writer. Lance blushes and begs off and calls his writing history a humbling experience.

2:04 -  KD breaks down Lance. HR pro at the start, starting one of the first HR blogs, then becomes a professional writer in our space at ERE and Starr Conspiracy. Lance describes when he knew writing was his differentiator.

7:30 -  Lance talks about “social proof” as being the addictive side of writing. Translation – reactions to your writing are good.

9:05: Lance and KD talk about the need for great talent to have writing skills. Lance talks about learning styles still including and being influenced by the written word. KD balks and says he thought that the world was being changed forever by video. #joking

12:55 – What’s the best way for a leader to test and confirm that someone can add value as a writer on their team?  Lance recommends communicating more than normal via email as a test – long email threads.  In addition, getting into someone’s process of creating written work product is key to understand their approach to the craft.

16:00 – Lance talks about knowing who the communicators are in your workplace and how that can help drive internal mobility in your company.

19:30 – KD talks about why all leaders – even if they are great writers – need to hire for writing skills so that leader can become an editor rather than a production writer.  #delegate

20:00 – Lance and KD talk about the right way to show your writing skills as a candidate. Maximizing your LinkedIn profile and presence is the path of least resistance and greatest reach for most professionals.

24:00 – Lance and KD talk about negative bias that may exist towards professionals who share their thoughts via blogs, LinkedIn and social.  Being vocal and sharing your thoughts may limit overall opportunity, but you’ll be a candidate of choice for many of the companies and hiring managers that remain.

28:30 – Lance talks about his dad, the butcher shop and how his dad’s business has gone up during the COVID crisis. KD thinks Lance could be the Gary V of meat. Lance talks about surprising his dad by running Facebook ads to drive traffic to the shop during normal times.  Haunsmeats.com


Links for Lance:

Lance Haun on LinkedIn

Lance Haun on Twitter

Haun’s Meats in Walla Walla WA!

KD's GPS

Kinetix

The HR Capitalist

Fistful of Talent

Boss Leadership Training Series

Kris Dunn on LinkedIn

Kris Dunn on Twitter

Kris Dunn on Instagram

 


The HR Famous Podcast: e19 - Starbucks Uniform Woes and Hourly Hiring...

In episode 19 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim Sackett, Kris Dunn, and Jessica Lee are back to discuss a number of topics about diverse hiring. The trio talk about Adidas’s new hiring goal, tech companies’ contribution to the BLM movement, and Starbucks’ uniform debacle. Later in the episode, Tim is joined by HR leader Jonathan Zoob about hourly hiring and sitting courtside at an NBA game. 

Click through if you don't see the player below, and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (iTunes) and follow (Spotify)!

1:30 - The gang is finally back together! It’s been a few weeks, but Tim, Jlee, and KD are all back on the podcast this week!

2:30 - First topic of the day: popular brand pronunciations. Apparently, the US says everything different than the rest of the world. 

3:45 - Adidas has announced that 30% of their hires will be diverse hires. The gang praises Adidas for putting a number out there to start progress but they question where the hiring is going to cause change. 

8:40 - Tim discusses a goal that he had at a previous company for diverse hires in leadership roles. He talks about push back from hiring managers and other certain people that feel victimized by diversity hiring goals. 

10:30 - KD talks about his favorite “Tim working at Applebee’s” story. Tim says that Applebee’s restrooms are like “a war zone”.....

11:30 - CNBC compiled a list of different tech companies and what they’re doing to support the BLM movement. Every company on the list contributed lots of money, but only one organization announced a change in leadership, when the CEO of Reddit stepped down from his board seat to fill it with a POC. Tim accuses many tech companies of “buying their way out of this conversation” instead of making real change happen. KD thinks that monetary contributions are still commendable but they need to effect real change too. 

14:45 - “You have to have money but you also have to have tangible movement”. 

16:30 - Starbucks’ employees were told that they could not wear apparel supporting BLM to work. They received backlash because Starbucks’ allows their employees to wear Pride-related uniforms in the month of June. They have pivoted since their original decision. Jlee praises them for pivoting and listening to their employees and what they want. 

20:00 - Tim thinks that Starbucks’ and other companies that enforce uniforms should standardize their uniforms and not allow anything other than a standard option since it is easier to manage and can raise many issues. He says that you can support diversity and other causes and keep a plain uniform. 

22:00 - “Print the shirts” -KD

23:30 - Time for this week’s special guest! Jonathan Zoob from Fountain has joined Tim for the second half of this week’s episode to talk about hourly hiring. 

25:00 - Tim and Zoob talk about their bucket list to sit courtside at a NBA game. They’re both Golden State Warriors fans!

27:00 - Back to business talk. Tim discusses hearing about pre-pandemic struggles to hire hourly workers and he asks Zoob what is going to change about hiring hourly workers. 

30:00 - Tim asks Zoob why companies should use different systems for hourly workers. 

32:30 - Are new hiring practices for hourly workers causing companies to lose the traditional experience of finding the best candidate? Zoob discusses how his company’s work allows non-HR professionals to find more and better candidates. 

34:30 - Tim brings up issues about hiring to create a diverse workforce and how training hiring leaders may not be enough. Zoob discusses how often those doing hiring won’t get diversity and bias training. 

36:00 - What do Fountain’s clients see getting better when using the Fountain system? Zoob says their time to hire decreases significantly. 

37:15 - Tim asks Zoob how fast time to hire should be and Zoob answers that companies must engage candidates in the application process to really get them to stay interested. 

39:00 - Last question of the day: will mass hiring start to happen without interviewing in the coming years?

40:20 - Find Jonathan at fountain.com for a demo or on LinkedIn! 

Resources:

Jessica Lee on LinkedIn

Tim Sackett on Linkedin

Kris Dunn on LinkedIn

HRU Tech

The Tim Sackett Project

The HR Capitalist

Fistful of Talent

Kinetix

Boss Leadership Training Series


Can You Chew Out an entire Team via a Zoom Call?

Here's the situation. The team is slacking overall, and you feel like the ole' team pep talk might be called for.

You know, you're going to chew them out via a team meeting. But wait! There's a pandemic going on my friend! What's that? It's been 3 months and you're tired of people mailing it in? I feel you. Before you do that team meeting, answer the following 3 questions:

1--Does the team have enough to work on? (many industries didn't in the height of the pandemic and still don't)

2--Does the team know there's enough to work on? (there may be things they can pivot to, but are they aware that's expected?)

3--Are you good at pep/chew talks? (Are you sure? Ask a trusted advisor)

If the answer to all those questions is "yes", it might be time for a team meeting where you lay down the law as the leader or the boss.

Of course, you have to answer a fourth question, and preferably the answer to this question is "yes" as well:

4 - Is most of your team in the same working space as they were before the pandemic? (many teams are still in makeshift home offices they didn't work in before)

I ask the last question for a specific reason. It's called Zoom.

In both television, movies and my career, some of the most epic scenes are always team pep talks/chew sessions. I'm a fan of the theatre, and there's specific elements that make up a great blow out session - I'll save those for another day.

But almost all of those epic team pep talks/chew out sessions are face to face with teams. It's really hard to deliver a CTJ (Come to Jesus) message on video conference no matter how good your framing or lighting.

I think the biggest reason for that is inability to command physical space. Whether standing or sitting as the speaker, everyone is in their own space on Zoom/Teams/Meet. You can't see body language, who's buying what you're selling, who's not, etc.

For that reason, I think only the masters can deliver the team chew/pep talk via Zoom. For the average Jedi managing during a pandemic, it's probably better to deliver a customized chew 1/1 with some notes on the team and the individual during that session.

Still going to use Zoom for the CTJ? Be sure to unmute your line before you start.


VIDEO: Using BHAGs as a Goal Setting Technique for High Performers...

Big, hairy, audacious goals, or BHAGs, are visionary, strategy statements designed to focus a group of people around a common initiative. They traditional differ from our other goal setting techniques because BHAGS are usually positioned toward by a large group (rather than individuals) and they typically span a large amount of time than any of our other goals. They’re huge.

Even though BHAGs are generally goals for companies and collective groups, smart managers are increasingly using them for individuals as well. I explain the merits of using BHAGs in this fashion in the following episode of TalentTalks from Saba Software.

Take a listen (email subscribers click through for video below if you don't see it) and hit me in the comments with a BHAG that's been useful in your career or managing a talented direct report!!! 


You Think Your Work Enemy Has Declared War: She Just Thinks It's Thursday...

"Some men just want to watch the world burn."

-Michael Caine in "The Dark Knight"

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Intent is a funny thing.  You're in the workplace, and the workplace has established norms: Some men

--We talk to each other before we make decisions or take meaningful action

--We give people a heads up before we announce something that won't feel good to them

--We try to play nice and if confronted, we try to make the person confronting us feel good about our intent.

Of course, those are norms - guidelines if you will, not hard rules.  Every once in a while, you run into someone that does not give two ****s about your norms.  They do what they want, when they want and generally don't give you heads up that it's coming or make you feel better if you ask them about it after the fact.

You know, ass####s.  We're pretty quick to assign full villain status to people who don't play by the rules.

What's interesting about the people like this you think are enemies in the workplace is the following:

You think they're out to get you based on chaos they cause.  They probably think it's Thursday.

They aren't even thinking about you.  Tearing shit up is just what they do.  In the age of Trump, we're likely to cast them as villains and think they're out to get us. That might be true, but in my experience, people who cause chaos can be factored into 3 categories when it impacts you:

1--They're out to get you.  It's what you thought.  They hate your guts, you're in the way and it's takedown time. 10% of the time, this is the reality.

2--They have a plan and a place they want to be unrelated to you.  They have a POA (plan of action) that's bigger than their relationship with you. You're taking it personally, but the "tearing shit up" and chaos impacts multiple people, not just you.  They're not even thinking about you, Skippy. 70% of the time, this is the reality.

3--They don't have a plan but love to keep everyone off balance as part of their managerial DNA.  Again, it's not about you.  Their business is chaos and by the way, the more positional power they have, the better that business is. 20% of the time, this is the reality.

Unless you're experiencing flavor #1 above, your best strategy is to keep an eye on it but ignore it.  Go about your business.  You do you, let them do them and save your emotional reaction and gun powder for when it really matters.  

If you're high sensitivity, this is going to be hard.  They're going to wear you out.  You think it's the workplace version of Normandy.

It's actually Thursday.  What's for lunch?


THE HR FAMOUS PODCAST: E18 – TORIN ELLIS – GOING ALL IN ON D&I IN 2020

The HR Famous Crew welcomes in author, SiriusXM radio host, and D&I Talent Strategy expert, Torin Ellis, to talk about how and what organizations can do in light of recent events surrounding the George Floyd killing. Torin delivers both practical advice for organizational leaders, but also directly to HR and TA leaders who have been struggling to move their D&I strategy forward in light of pandemic budget cuts, during what might be the most important time in recent history to be all-in on D&I.

Listen below and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (iTunes) and follow (Spotify)!

1:50 – Welcome to the pod, our special guest Torin Ellis! Jlee and Torin are tired, guys!

2:45 – Tim emceed the Transform HR virtual conference last week so he too is tired. 

3:30 – Check out Torin’s podcast Crazy and The King!

5:30 – Is Baltimore different from the rest of Maryland? Jlee’s husband thinks so but Torin defends the great city Baltimore. 

7:00 – First topic of the episode: virtual conferencing! Tim discusses Transform HR and the great experience he had last week emceeing the conference. 

9:00 – Torin discusses his experience as a keynote speaker at Transform HR the past 2 years and praises the conference for allowing him to use his platform as a keynote speaker to raise awareness and money for causes and to bring humanity to the conference. 

12:20 – Insider report: Torin scratched his entire keynote presentation the night before the conference!

13:30 – Tim asks Torin about how he thinks the current the Black Lives Matter movements and protests will affect D&I campaigns within corporations. Torin remains optimistic but wants substantive movement moving forward. 

16:00 – Although Nike is often praised for their response to social issues, Nike board member Peter Henry, has said that only 8% of Nike’s VPs are black. Tim references The Prof G Show podcast episode “Slow Thinking”

18:30 – Jlee and Torin are surprised by Peter Henry’s thought that he didn’t expect a social movement like what we’re seeing today for another ten years. Torin thinks that maybe Henry’s maturity is causing him to be a little out of touch with younger people. 

21:20 – Jlee brings up a recent experience she had with a black female team member about being reached out to a lot in the past week by white friends. She asks Torin about the burden and exhaustion black people and other POC are feeling and how to work through it. 

23:40 – Torin responds by discussing the bad timing by these people to ask for guidance by their black peers. He recommends for non-black people to go to each other and figure out why such discrimination has happened for many years. 

28:00 – Torin encourages everyone to read White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo and The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein. Check them out to learn how to be a better ally to POC and about the systemic racism built into every system of our lives in the United States. 

32:00 – The topics shift to discuss budget cuts in D&I departments. Tim asks Torin how to see growth in D&I in this time of reductions. Torin believes that organizations that cut their D&I departments now will be behind for many years to come. 

34:45 – Tim brings up small changes that organizations can make to promote D&I. Torin advises recruiting from a wider range of schools and breaking the norm from current recruiting patterns. 

40:00 – Find Torin on all social media platforms @torinellis and at torinellis.com. Also, check out his show on SiriusXM Channel 126 on Sundays at 1 pm!


BHAGs: You're Afraid. Elon Musk is Not...

Shout out to SpaceX for the recent mission on behalf of NASA, launching astronauts and sending them to the International Space Station.

None of it would have happened without a BHAG (Big, Hairy, Audacious Goal).

BHAGs are visionary, strategy statements designed to focus a group of people around a common initiative. They differ from our other goal setting techniques because BHAGS are positioned toward by a large group (rather than individuals) and they typically span a large amount of time than any of our other goals. They’re huge.

BHAGs can come in several flavors. Most are focused on one of four broad categories: reaching a defined target or metric, competition, organizational change, or reputation. Here are a few examples from some companies Elon-musk-mars you’ve probably never heard of…

-Reaching a defined target

“Attain 1 billion customers worldwide” – Citicorp, 1990s

-Competition

“Crush Adidas” – Nike, 1960s

-Organizational Change

“Transform this company from a chemical manufacturer into one of preeminent drug-making companies in the world.” –Merck, 1930s

-Reputation

“Become the company most known for changing the worldwide poor-quality image of Japanese products” – Sony, 1950s

Wait - Nike wasn't always the leader? Japanese products were once considered low quality before Japan was kicking our ass in the 80's?

Well, before the world as we know it at Nike and Sony became the reality, leaders at those companies created a BHAG as a single unified vision for their people to rally around.

You know who else is good at BHAGs?  Elon Musk.  Musk basically BHAG'd his way into Tesla and Space X becoming great companies.  

Electric Car with quality and luxury?  BHAG.

Reusable rockets with segments that can land back on earth on pads?  B-freaking-HAG.

Well, here comes Musk again, probably the most adept user of BHAGs in the world.  The ultimate BHAG for him is Mars - more from The Guardian:

Elon Musk has unveiled plans for a new spacecraft that he says would allow his company SpaceX to colonise Mars, build a base on the moon, and allow commercial travel to anywhere on Earth in under an hour. The spacecraft is currently still codenamed the BFR (Big Fucking Rocket). Musk says the company hopes to have the first launch by 2022, and then have four flying to Mars by 2024.

Last year Musk proposed an earlier plan for the spacecraft, but at the time had not developed a way of funding the project. Speaking at the International Astronautical Congress in Adelaide Australia on Friday, Musk said the company had figured out a way to pay for the project.

The key, he said, was to “cannibalise” all of SpaceX’s other products. Instead of operating a number of smaller spacecrafts to deliver satellites into orbit and supply the International Space Station, Musk said the BFR would eventually be used to complete all of its missions. “If we can do that then all the resources that are used for Falcon9, Dragon and Heavy can by applied to this system,” he said.

BFR.  Musk isn't messing around.  The BHAG is set.

Getting NASA astronauts to the ISS doesn't happen without the bigger BHAG. 

If history tells us nothing else, it tells us that Musk will probably make it happen.  Maybe not by 2024, but you can't have a BHAG without making it seem impossible.


Working Anywhere Means Elite Cities Are Being Shorted...

How's COVID going for you?

I know, what a freaking mess. Nice post by Paul Hebert today over at Fistful of Talent, who's Gostalking about the need for HR Pros to become polymaths, individuals whose knowledge spans a significant number of subjects, known to draw on complex bodies of knowledge to solve specific problems. 

Sounds a lot like what we need in an imploding world are great HR Generalists.

Let's talk about one trend specifically - the idea that people can work anywhere (white collar jobs) in a Post-COVID World.

Do you believe that? If you do, then as a great HR pro, you must adjust your world view to de-prioritize elite cities as a "must have" location for your organization. One company of many - Stitch Fix - is making the move that many of us must contemplate as talent professionals. Stich Fix is getting the hell out of California. More from SFgate.com:

San Francisco-based online personal styling service Stitch Fix is laying off 1,400 stylists in California between now and the end of September, affecting 18% of its workforce, per a statement released on Monday. The online retailer said that after the cuts are made, it will look to hire back in lower-cost states.

The company's model, built around stylists helping subscribers select clothing that is then shipped to customers each month, has been one of the few major success stories in the subscription shopping world.

CEO and founder Katrina Lake, who started the company in 2011, said "all of our California-based stylists will be offered the opportunity to relocate to the new roles in other states."

The company said that the cost of operating in California was becoming increasingly difficult, and plans to hire stylists in other lower-cost states such as Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Texas.

Man. If a company like Stich Fix - fashion, style, etc. - is getting out of the Elite City/Elite State game, then you probably need to fire up Talent Neuron from Gartner and figure out where lower cost talent is stateside as well.

Simply put - if people can and will work anywhere, then your ability to find more talent and potentially pay it less grows exponentially. Facebook made a similar move recently - not by firing people in California, but by acknowledging if people choose to work remote and move to a lower cost area, their salary would likely be adjusted for the labor group/area in question.

It's Comp 101. Covid just accelerates the fact that "place" and "location" matters less (note it still matters, but less). We did a decade's worth of transformation in 3 months. 

With this change in mind, the woman who just graduated from Valdosta State (GA) with a degree in fashion and doesn't want to/can't move to an elite city now has a chance to get a job with a premier company.  Same with Facebook - if you're a great developer, you now have a better chance at working for an elite company - without moving from your podunk little town.

Start firing up the research on lower cost talent with the same skills, HR pros.

Side note: My understanding is that Stitch Fix stylists have to serve men looking to upgrade their style. That reminds me of Crazy Stupid Love, with Ryan Gosling but instead featuring a remote stylist trying to convince a 55-year old accountant to give up double pleats. 

Maybe hazard pay for those stylists. 

(Clip with Gosling shopping with Carrell below, email subscribers click through if you don't see it).